Ep. 125 - Josh Miles

Ep. 125 - Josh Miles

This week on the Creative Waffle podcast, I chat with Josh Miles about podcasting, design, how to master networking, we go deep on personal branding and more. Hope you enjoy the show.

Find Josh here:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/joshmiles

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshmilescom/

His podcast:

https://www.instagram.com/obsessedshow/

https://www.obsessedshow.com/

 

 

Full Episode - Audio Only

 

 

5 Bullet Breakdown

1. 6:30 - How did you get clients in and get things off the ground?

It was a lot of gives, a lot of relationship building. So it was people who I knew from my former agency job and it was just constantly connecting the dots between, membership organisations, like AIGA that I was very involved with early on and then I would meet a designer at AIGA meeting competitors. That's not how you go get new work. But a lot of those designers would go work in house somewhere and then they would need help they would need overflow and they would call me or they would get a freelance job that they couldn't do and they refer me for that opportunity. So it was crazy how many opportunities actually came from fellow creatives and fellow designers that? Really helped build the business early on.

2. 19:58 - Positioning Yourself

How do you position yourself to be were seen as this designer for small Brands small businesses?

Yeah. Well, I think the one maybe this is obvious, but I think showing the kind of work that you have done that you're proud of. Is really the only kind of work you should be showing…

So I think if you decide doing brands for small businesses is what you want to be known for, then that's the only kind of work you should be talking about and it's the only kind of work you that you should show so the.

3. 11:31 Getting a message and meaning into a concept. Not just a pretty design.

4. 15:36 Example of getting a message into a design from a consulting session.

5. 35:00 “You can only get so much value and inspiration from other peoples work” Get out of your normal environment.

 

 

Clip of the week

 

 

Mentioned on the episode

Obsessed with Design Podcast

https://www.instagram.com/obsessedshow/

https://www.obsessedshow.com/

Josh on YouTube

https://bit.ly/2ZN2Psw

Josh on Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/joshmilescom/

Bold Brand 2.0 Book

https://www.boldbrand.com/

Josh’s Ted Talk

https://youtu.be/LWrlJccg828

Miles Herndon Design Agency

https://milesherndon.com/

SMPS

https://www.smps.org/

PSM Podcast

https://psm.show/

People mentioned on the Show

Scotty Russell - https://Perspective-collective.com

Darold Pinnock - https://passionbehindtheart.simplecast.fm/

 

 

Full Video Version

Catch the video version of the show on YouTube. https://youtu.be/pg03anunhkk

 

 

Full Episode Rough Transcript

Ep. 125 - Josh Miles

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of the creative waffle podcast today. You're listening to myself Mark Hirons and Josh Miles on the show today we talked about his podcast obsessed with design his book bold Brands 2.0 and then we go deep into position yourself and your brand we talked for a few marketing tactics and a few ways to get noticed. We also talked a lot about networking held to be a good networker.

[00:00:31] And finally we finish up on Brandon personal values. So I really hope you enjoy this podcast without further Ado. Let's get to the show. We're in welcome to the podcast. Well, thank you. It's good to be here. Yeah. It was some stretchy walk we start with who you are and what you do. Yeah, my name is Josh miles some of your listeners might know me as the host of the podcast obsessed with design been doing that for cash almost 3 years.

[00:00:57] We've been a little bit [00:01:00] of a Hiatus on and off for the last year, but I've got something like five or six episodes in the can so hopefully your your listeners can check those out. Those are a bit obsessed show.com. I branded Agency for about 16 years. Old miles design which eventually became miles Herndon and my partner took over about a year ago, and they're still going strong and I'm currently the.

[00:01:26] Chief marketing officer for a membership organization called snps which is mostly a space to get a few Canadian chapters, but it's for marketers who work in architecture and engineering nice and for that group we get another podcast called PSM shows. It's all about Professional Services marketing.

[00:01:47] So let's that's been interesting lots of lots of juggling and plate spinning on my own. Yeah, you do like issue stuff as well. Yeah, I see that you're carrying with that as well. So it's busy over there. How do you how do you manage it [00:02:00] all? Just barely as well and I guess he on Instagram. I post a lot with family is he doing a lot with them as well?

[00:02:08] So it's as pretty a lot going on to kiddos to podcasts one wife. So I keeps it simple and lots of lots of interests. Yeah. I really just kind of dug into the YouTube thing last year and decided that I wanted to teach myself more about video and how YouTube works and and that. Turn into like a full-on kind of obsession of itself.

[00:02:33] So if listeners go back and listen to my podcast from a year plus ago. I probably mentioned it a couple times. Okay? Yeah, I really want to figure out YouTube and I'm still still figuring out but it's been fun digging into that. Yeah. Now I must also need to even it was a excuse good. Is that exciting and it's a long slog though.

[00:02:54] There is how it'll be. All right. Yes carry on do you think about getting the [00:03:00] podcast on videos? Well, I don't. Yeah, so I did for my other show. I had Seth Godin. He's a marketing author on a few months back. And that was really the first one that I use the video for as well. So I've started trying to get video of my new new guests.

[00:03:20] So all the new obsession show ones that I mentioned earlier were not video, but I'm going to start releasing those on both when available because I love what you're doing here. And I think it's. The cool to be able to actually see the other side of the conversation. Yeah, I think some people majority of people do still listen to audio but there's a nice little handful of people that liked the video sessions as well.

[00:03:44] So it's pretty worth doing it. I mean and it's got your Russell as well from respective Collective. He's going to start doing them and I think Darryl would pin oak. I think he might be doing it as well eventually. But remember when you do live Honey's to come to 200 episode is doing a live big live [00:04:00] show as well for that.

[00:04:00] So. Exciting stuff the community at the moment. There's lots going on. Yeah, very cool. Have you done any of these like as live streams?  No, no, I haven't done live stream. Yeah, I haven't I haven't experimented with that yet. But I guess that's the that's the next level. Well, you know, you know design recharge for.

[00:04:22] Diane she's yeah. She's his last live-streamed every time and she's pretty straight out. I think it's scared of that. I'd have to edit it down and get all the pauses and arms out and hopefully it's not too bad. But yeah, that's pretty brave. All the comments. Are there I going as well. Do you see flying and six hundred episodes or whatever it is?

[00:04:40] Yeah. That's pretty awesome. It's amazing. Yeah good stuff in the community. So. But what I found on you leave YouTube channels and videos and everything was just a really interesting was the 59 second bits the little videos that you do. That's really good. Can you tell people what they're about?

[00:04:57] Yeah, so one of the first things [00:05:00] actually the very first thing I did was just kind of a test and it was involved my favorite design podcasts at the moment, which I've been saying you need to do episode 2 including yours. Like I don't think you run a first list, but you're definitely on on the new list.

[00:05:14] So I need to finish running that out. But so the very next thing that I tried was I thought man what if we could put together like these little one minute videos just with like. For marketers or designers, especially on personal brand or how to think about marketing themselves differently, you know truth be told they're very seldom actually under a minute.

[00:05:37] But we we talk about them as 59 second Fridays and I did one of those. Pretty much one a week last year. I think I may have missed a couple of them are so trying to keep up with that. So this year and that's this is a tough. It's tough challenge. I frequently find myself according something on Thursday night to go out Friday morning.

[00:05:56] But but those are fun and I've gotten good feedback on them. [00:06:00] That's good stuff. It's tough to kind of. Think about what's the next thing what something I haven't talked about or what something people ask me about so often it's something that I just talked about the day before I was a real in-person conversation and smooth.

[00:06:15] Like what do you think about and then that's what becomes a video so it's been cool. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. They're also tips from stuff. You learned from building your own business Insight no Studio. Yeah, how's that been as well? I just thought you know Studio had when you started how did you get off the ground and you get clients in?

[00:06:32] How did you really get it going? Oh, yeah good question. So I worked for an advertising agency right out of University and had one of their job for about six months in house with a company called Finish Line, which is an athletic shoe retailer in the US and as I was taking that job at Finish Line, I was really on the fence as to whether I should start my own thing at that point.

[00:06:58] I thought you know what this is a cool [00:07:00] opportunity to work with Nike and Adidas and a few other big Brands. So I gave it a try and as in-house goes it was pretty cool. But I really ultimately just wanted to do my own thing. So towards the end of my. Tenure there. I had more freelance work than I knew what to do with or that I could get done on nights and weekends.

[00:07:20] So I thought well, let's let's just try this worst case. I'll go get another job. And so I saved up enough cash over six months to pay myself for the first couple weeks, and I decided by month to I wanted the business to completely be paying my salary and not be tapping savings anymore. And that experiment lasted the entire 16 years.

[00:07:46] So he's that was good. It was a lot of gives a lot of relationship building. So it was people who I knew from my former agency job and it was just constantly connecting the dots between, you [00:08:00] know, membership organizations, like aiga that I was very involved with early on and then I would need a designer at AIGA.

[00:08:10] Meeting competitors. That's not how you go get new work. But a lot of those designers would go work in house somewhere and then they would need help they would need overflow and they would call me or they would get a freelance job that they couldn't do and they prefer me for that opportunity. So it was crazy.

[00:08:25] How many opportunities actually came from fellow creatives and fellow designers that? Really helped build the business early on.

I'm so glad you said that because it's that something's been very helping me at the moment of designers and business relationships Roberts. Honestly, eventually handiwork or like they trust you enough to be able to.

[00:08:44] If you open those you busy or we need to have enough made when they can't do the job or something, that's something I've been really pushing in the moment. It's been great. It's been really good about three projects to have done. So it's handy it's great. But yeah, just just how should you go [00:09:00] around doing that?

[00:09:01] It was it literally just building up relationships. And and how did when you say building relationships how long and what stuff we're saying to people? Yeah, that's good question. So the short answer is networking. There were a lot of different networking and business groups in Indianapolis where I'm based.

[00:09:21] And so it wasn't just going to aiga and creative kind of things but it was also other business owners who are trying to build up their business. So I did end up sitting down with insurance salesman and talking to them about who they need to meet and who their target market is and I would tell them what I needed and so we just tried to be good referral partners for one another, you know had a small group that I would meet with pretty frequently like once a month.

[00:09:48] And we'd all get together with the same group and talk about different new businesses that we had heard about or maybe someone who's up for an award. And if anybody knew how to get hold of this person and it's just a [00:10:00] great way. I was sort of like the the analog version of LinkedIn. So you're meeting in person and having real conversations in real time as opposed to just all email and I am.

[00:10:13] And I think the other piece of that was in one of these networking groups a friend of mine who's an intern for another agency was literally standing behind me talking to someone else about what they did and I heard the person he was talking to out of my ears say. So I know what Josh does but how are you guys different from Josh?

[00:10:34] And then he said well, you know, we're better for startups and small companies. Josh really does high-end stuff for really professional firms and I thought. That sounds right but that's not what I'm saying about myself. What if if Mike is my competition is literally saying that about me what if I went out to the market and echoed that same message and that really gave us a lot of momentum once we got really consistent with [00:11:00] how we talked about the agency and the kinds of work and the kinds of clients that we did work for so that became one of the huge.

[00:11:09] For the chief Focus that the agency was doing high-end Brandon Webb work for professional and B2B the stuff that would really nice and leave me on to my next point. But I'm going to keep going on this network and stuff because I know it's I'm sure people because it's the thing is people find it boring guys networking events.

[00:11:27] And they also those have trouble wanting to go to them because it's a bit awkward or it's a spit. Give it nervous run over people that people don't know. How can you just throw yourself in that? How can you make it more warm or maybe dude? You start talking about things that you like to do outside of business or also obviously like a good conversation starter think the short answer is you ask some of those are awful and when you're in a in a room with people who know how to network and I mean they don't.

[00:11:57] Go to meetings and network, but they're [00:12:00] good networkers. Good networkers are givers and their connectors. So if you want to. If you want to get that from someone else you have to give that first so you go you come to that conversation willing to make introductions or willing to share and it's not just everybody you don't just go up to a random guy and say Hey, I want to introduce you to my best client and you can sell stuff to him.

[00:12:24] That's not what it's about. But it's feeling like we've got a connection here you and I are you know on the same page or have some common interest we should sit down together grab a cup of coffee and learn more about what you. To do and at that point then then your may be in a position where you're willing to make a connection for them or help them out.

[00:12:44] But I think one of the things as a as a designer as creative myself, I think one of the most important things is your. Your curiosity and your willingness to listen, so if you're curious and want to listen and kind of help [00:13:00] them solve problems, then I think you're going to get a lot further than if you just go trying to pass out as many business cards as possible and hoping to get people to, you know, follow you on Twitter or whatnot.

[00:13:11] Yeah, I've been is real conversations people I get it in so I don't know if you networking things before but. As if I'm still quite young but I got been nervous about it and got bit overwhelmed. So I'm sort of still going to them. But then again I'm going to these design like more comfortable environment slide design conferences and creative self and things in London that are going on in the UK you going up north and it's it's not it's much more relaxed environment using people around, you know, everyone's in the same boat and you know, It will assign problems and it's great that you can talk about those things together and and eventually, you know bill this network of other designers.

[00:13:47] That's why I'm doing the podcast. That's what I'm doing with going around the UK in this new series. I'm going to do on YouTube. But yeah, they're the people that I found that have been the best part of me passing by getting work from and not not really other [00:14:00] businesses. I mean is that I've been the best best networking thing for you going over to people that aren't designers.

[00:14:08] Yeah, I think it's important for you to have a mix because at some level just talking to designers, you know, it's designers talking to designers about design and it's not not necessarily going to make you as well-rounded as getting exposure to other Industries or especially as you find. Okay. Well we've done work for.

[00:14:30] Three clients that are in the same industry. I wonder wonder what conferences or what groups my clients belong to and then to attend one of your clients conferences and to hear those conversations or to hear what the keynote or the breakout sessions are talking about. You start to understand problems that your clients have that maybe you could help solve that weren't even on your radar before so I think it really kind of expands how you think about design [00:15:00] problems as you dig into these other groups, but.

[00:15:02] I mean you really even networking is just good practice for for dealing with future clients to so you're you're in a room where you don't have to do business with them, but you're kind of getting used to talking to different types of people and different personalities and some people are very extroverted.

[00:15:19] Some people are very introverted and most people are somewhere in between and kind of. Balance between both and can it get used to all those unique Elements by going to these networking groups, right? Yeah, I guess I guess it's is being a speaker is probably quite a good skill. Anyway, I've been able to talk to people and being open and sharing sharing just having the able to have a conversation.

[00:15:42] It's like one of the main skills. I would if I had a child as well if I had a child and I could give him one skill that prove it have a conversation be able to speak of conversation. Yeah, nice. So we're talking about being able to people recognizing what you do [00:16:00] and then you sort of being able to portray the message and give it a give an actual an actual vision of and understanding what you do to other people and that's what we expect your Ted talk a little bit as well, which I always do that in 2014 is it says I five years ago.

[00:16:16] Yeah, that's that's all right. Are you doing you guys planning on doing another one or is it all good? I don't have one on the books yet, but I do have another I wrote a book a few years ago on branding for Professional Services and I have a new a new book concept that I've been kicking around. So if that becomes a book, I think it would be another another good that talk as well.

[00:16:41] Well, what's the book what's your book about? So the previous book was called bold brand 2.0 and was about branding for Professional Services firms kind of the everything from positioning through kind of the legal stuff of trademark and then website and marketing the new book that I'm working on is more [00:17:00] about how to embrace the role of a futurist within your organization.

[00:17:06] So. Sort of exploring the idea of who within your company should own the future whose job is it to think about what's next and the lookout for those not just to look out for the risks, but also to look out for the opportunities or where your your industry could be changing all together. Is that a is that a CEO or founder sort of vision or is that a you know, marketing role or you know, it's probably not your accountants role.

[00:17:33] It's probably not here your operations guy. You know looking through at what what some leading futurists you're saying and also seeing how that might apply within your business or organization nice. And that's more that's to do if everyone is not just designers. Yeah, I think that'll be a more more broadly applicable.

[00:17:53] Look for sure. Cool, it's just like there are going to be out or is it like a very work in progress? I [00:18:00] would love to have something written by the end of the year. Nice. That's awesome. I'm not sure I've said that to anybody else certainly not publicly. She's got two years thousands of years or so and listeners.

[00:18:12] But yeah look for that into the year, but can people get the coloring book Quran Books available on Amazon. Whoo. So what's the most important about the computer in your Ted talk again? What's the importance of someone having a clear message understanding of what you do? And how do you portray that as you go around by sharing that?

[00:18:35] You know, it was kind of early on in my design career. Even when I was working at an advertising agency this concept of branding and positioning and differentiation was something that I was just naturally attracted to so it was something that I kind of dug into further. So I'm kind of a voracious learner when I find something that I want to know more about I just kind of [00:19:00] obsess over and dig into it and part of why that.

[00:19:03] My podcast is called obsessed with designers to sort of self-realization my creative director of the time helped with the title of that but it just totally hit home and you know thinking about perception in particular is one of the things that I talked about in the Ted Talk, which is you think you're putting out your best work and your client your.

[00:19:29] Partner whoever doesn't think you're doing your best work, you know, why is there why is there that disconnects? Why is there a paradox between what you're delivering and what you feel like you're delivering and I think positioning and differentiation and how you've branded yourself as a big piece of that.

[00:19:48] So to be intentional about how you want somebody to perceive you as opposed to just sort of letting it happen. Right. Yeah. So, how do you do that? That's a young designer. [00:20:00] You start up your own your own name. He started up a small design studio by yourself. You want to get attract clients? And how do you position yourself to be were seen as this designer for small Brands small businesses?

[00:20:13] Yeah. Well, I think the one maybe this is obvious, but I think showing the kind of work that you have done that you're proud of. Is really the only kind of work you should be showing. when I was a young student. I was showing my portfolio to an art director and we turn the page of my big plastic binder and I had this this billboard for a restaurant that was in Northern Indiana called.

[00:20:40] I think it's called the Matterhorn and it. You know, it was not exciting was big plate of food and headline in a location and he was like Judas I said, yeah. It's a billboard. He's like, why is it in your book? Because I kiss it's a real billboard. See there's the photo of the thing. I did I did this billboard.

[00:20:58] He's like. [00:21:00] Did you like design the logo now? Did you write the headline know I laid out two pieces. He's like this is you think this is some of your best work as like, well, no, not really but it's a real billboard and he was like if if you don't want to do Billboards and this isn't your thing.

[00:21:16] This should not be in your book. It's frankly not the best piece in here. You didn't create the look and feel for you didn't design the brand so. I don't see any reason why you would show this thing and it was the first time that I ever thought like but when you finally get experience, you know like oh this is a real job, but then maybe that's still not the best fit to show the kind of work that you want.

[00:21:41] So I think if you decide doing brands for small businesses is what you want to be known for then that's the only kind of work you should be talking about and it's the only kind of work you that you should show so the. Step one in my book has such good advice that he had like a list of love from from that.

[00:21:58] There's electricity that [00:22:00] it was way who said that she was it lecturer was it it was an art director at an ad agency that I was applying to. Tough love ya like that look exactly so so okay talking showing your portfolio and change stuff. You want to put out there. Is there anything else? How would you brand yourself in terms of would you put logo on it or would you suppose it depends on the name?

[00:22:22] If you go for your own name with you've got a logo for it or would you go over your face or what sort of stuff with you guys on that roof? Yeah, I think any of those things are fine options. I think even thinking a little bit down the line of do I want to build this into a 20-person agency or do I want this to be seen as a bigger thing that it is because I can I can bring my friends in from across town or across the country around the world and they're going to help me with projects.

[00:22:50] I want this to look like a bigger. Sing or do I want to be a resource to other design firms and Studios that they would reach out to Josh and [00:23:00] just hire Josh to help out and I think that makes a difference how you position it. So if I just want to be your extra set of hands, then I would definitely just branded as me and if I want to be seen by my clients ultimately as a big legitimate resource than maybe it deserves a separate name and a bigger idea.

[00:23:21] Cool. Okay. Is there anything else like you do with the look of it with it? Whether this show on social media? For example on maybe consistency there anything down that road you can go. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean something that that I would always recommend from a personal brand standpoint is doing a bit of an oddity.

[00:23:41] And audit can sound like a big scary Financial work, but I think it's really just a matter of thinking through. What do I want people to see and what do I want them to think when they look at my stuff and if I line up what I'm doing on Instagram alongside of Twitter alongside of maybe my personal website or my dribble account [00:24:00] or my whatever else you have out there line these things up and say.

[00:24:05] Is this obviously all from the same person all from the same designer all from the same same point of view or are you seeing really different things and if they are really different is there a reason for that? So I think finding consistency within those or or maybe you decide or Instagram is really where I just want to share photos.

[00:24:27] It is kind of what it was intended for but designers often will show logos and other things there too. So you might have a reason why one of these things doesn't fit if it's like, okay. This is where personal vacation photos or you know, me and my family you're just cool shots that I take but again be intentional about that and don't just look these things happen to you.

[00:24:49] Okay? Who so no young designs isn't his book. Uh, so do you like clarify the web positioning? Oh, yeah. So positioning is almost like if you think [00:25:00] of an x and y axis and math class, right? So why is up and down and X is left and right if you think about where something falls on that grid. Make it any two qualities that you might compare if we think of like in the US retailers if you think of someone who's really cheap to really expensive kind of on that y-axis, so the cheapest possible resources the bottom and the most expensive is the top and then at the far the far right-hand side would be.

[00:25:38] They're really specialized than the far left hand side would be the sell absolutely everything. So you're trying to look at how would you map every retailer on that on that list and at least in the u.s. When you say someone who's really cheap and they sell absolutely everything. Do you have any guesses what everybody says?

[00:25:58] Yeah, well, he said [00:26:00] Walmart, I think yeah Walmart Walmart is always always it the UK version of that would be poundland Howland that's it. Okay, there you go. So so Walmart in this case and I would say intentionally has this position as we have really low prices and we have just about everything you could possibly want.

[00:26:20] So as a consumer in my mind, they hold that position. Now if you think about if we go the opposite end where they are very specialized in very expensive. They're probably all kinds of brands that you can think of. Is there anybody that rings a bell for you specialize in very expensive Apple? Yeah.

[00:26:43] Yeah apple certainly in that direction and they're more diverse than they used to be in that they have. You know all of their digital products and music and you know more than just just X now. We said when I pose or someone who just has one sort of product. Let's just sound [00:27:00] speakers. Yeah, try to look around see if there's anything but we're like, you know Tesla is very very specialized in what they saw they have what three cars or something.

[00:27:11] But again, that's that's positioning. So it's it's the Art and Science of being intentional about wanting your consumer your your client your customer to think of you and they think of those qualities. So again, the example that I gave was in the early days of our agency was we do really high end stuff for very professional companies.

[00:27:33] And so that was a very specific Niche that we were able to capture. Within the work our firm was doing who that's how did you betray that in like a logo and our in like the natural look of it I missed you. Yeah, I think doing that within a logos is kind of a tall task. But you know our our look and feel [00:28:00] wasn't especially playful.

[00:28:01] You know, we had kind of. Conservative color palettes and you know, very clean Sans serif or and you know, lots of. All caps and spaced out and well balanced and good Harmony could strength. So I think if you have work that's all playful and hand-drawn. It's super colorful and then you say it's professional and high-end than people go.

[00:28:24] I don't know. I don't think so. We do, you know this playful colorful stuff for for restaurants or for microbreweries, then okay that that makes a lot more sense. So I think matching the aesthetic with the with the positioning. Is is not it's not 100% essential for every project but I think having that consistency is important.

[00:28:48] Okay, as it's really one that looks and that you see it. Does it really well? So I actually on my podcast. My next interview is [00:29:00] with a guy named Nick Ace and he works for Collins, which was founded by Brian Collins. And Collins is doing some really really nice brand work right now. Two of his new case studies are going up there now, but if you check out the columns website, they did the recent Spotify update which was maybe a year or two ago now but mechanically a group that you should reach out to you and I'll tell Nick to chat with you.

[00:29:29] It was a design company yet. Yeah, they're a branding really branding agency who I think I might know the is that website? This might come up in a minute. Yeah, that's some colors MailChimp and stuff. Oh, yeah. I've seen nice. Yeah, there is some pretty clever. I'll be cool in two years old. Yeah, you you guys are cool people on your show.

[00:29:52] I like it. Yeah, it has some good people. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, we're really sorry. I'm really trying to push down this road [00:30:00] because I know young people have a problem with this how to portray themselves. And when I was younger it was all over the place is either either doing changing names each year or changing logo each year or this really try and stand who I am now at finally stuck with one, but I'm still trying to hold that messaging and try.

[00:30:15] Trying to get more consistent with templates and social media things and messaging there's any more advice or tips or anything else people can do to really get consistent and make sure people understand what they do. I think identifying the touch points that are most important to your clients again early on one of the really important touch points for me are places where I would interact with somebody were in these in-person networking events.

[00:30:44] So it was important for me in the early days to have a really nice business card, you know, not just that it was printed professionally but something that that the stock was amazing or the material was something different or. There was maybe something that your average business guy. I had never seen [00:31:00] before.

[00:31:00] So I really leaned in heavily to the business card design one year. They were plastic, you know, we had done Letterpress and really thick cards and Edge painting and foil and you know, not all at once but kind of experimented with all of these things over the years and had had some some really cool business cards, so I think.

[00:31:22] For your listeners think about what is that interaction? What's that touch point that most frequent for you? So is it is it an email contact form? And if so, you know, should you have some sort of autoresponder so that as soon as somebody reaches out and says I'd like to talk to you about a project they get an email back that says.

[00:31:44] Thank you or excited to talk to you. We got your message and we'll be in touch soon, you know something that's just a really great touchpoint that gives them the assurance that that you're a pro and you're you're on top of it. Does it really good points? Okay, so it's finding how [00:32:00] people get in touch with you and and maybe making that look good and making it professional and old boy.

[00:32:04] However, you want to be perceived those it's really good one actually about the business cards because I conflict so much money spending money on printing business cards over the years just because I like making things a current guards there like this and I could see it a bit dark but got bit of oil on there.

[00:32:23] This is making the world better by. The only thing then designer had them printed. I got them and realized I haven't got my logo on. I go to the contact information. I got the website of the email Twitter handle but no but logo. Oh, maybe next year for those first. But yeah my voice people try to get business cards done.

[00:32:48] Make sure you can hand them out before you get them done. I've always you'll be wasting money. Like I. Yeah, but yeah, that's very good advice. I see ya. So it's just about this experience creating experience [00:33:00] people whenever people have interactions with you or your business or whatever. You called making sure that they're excited to be contacting you making make an interaction fun.

[00:33:09] Yeah, absolutely cool as ready as any other ways or any other advice you would give to people doing that happen. Maybe how you've done it in the past. Well, maybe don't look past a tactic just because it's it's old-fashioned. Like sending out a handwritten note after you've met with someone new as a follow-up and with a signature and maybe throw a sticker in there or something fun to remember you or some note about the conversation, you know, there's I think this handwritten touches or getting getting mail in the mailbox this opposed to the email box.

[00:33:49] It feels really good. Now, we're before people with you know rummage through there. Their mailbox and just throw away the junk to find something that's actually addressed to you and [00:34:00] intentional I think is still a really great touch and again, maybe for your listeners. Maybe that's maybe it's something else.

[00:34:06] Maybe it's a Twitter mention or an Instagram saying I don't know but. No, that's good. I mean students if you're looking to get get get get seen out there, especially in the day of social media where emails have getting looked at less and less than male. Like I know businesses and friend of the show Tom Rossi's and you've been to time as well.

[00:34:30] Yeah. I design cut someone sent him this big. Sweet package and how the people's faces on it. I work at Zonkers and he gonna be excited about it and it's always really creative and they gave him projects to do the guy who sent in because although he's looking for a job. They can give him a job, but they still kept my in him in mind and got him some where I got my foot in the door.

[00:34:52] So if you're going to send out something that's that's really good. I'm turning on do. So I want to design football cover by brochure cut football program [00:35:00] brochure designs, which is like he goes over to match you get the program and it does you'll about the Mansion has a few interviews and stuff in it.

[00:35:06] So I want to do just the covers of that football clubs soccer clubs. And so I'm glad I've created loads and of them in I'm going to keep going till the end of the season the end of the season going to get printed like an actual program just full of covers. I've designed hopefully if I have enough money send them out to design it for clubs and rubber cover letter.

[00:35:29] So go again go for a. Have you ever look at people's emails and having look at people's names and actually doing it right like a handwritten letter to each Club to each person at the club like a marketing manager and media manager. I'm hoping that'll be enough to get me the job. We'll see. How are ya that sounds really cool, you know related to that clients.

[00:35:53] In my experience love it when things are really small. Okay, when things are really big. So [00:36:00] consider sending out your covers really tiny where they could like stack them up on their desk or send them like a poster of a cover. It's just the impact when the scale is unexpected is is really wild, you know when you unveil your new logo and it's like as big as the wall people are just some ideas big.

[00:36:20] I don't know what to do. It's so great when you look at it on a piece of paper. Like I don't know if I like this font, or I don't know about this, but I think showing that that extreme of really big and really small as this is interesting. And of course, you know sending it in the mail as opposed to just emailing them the PDF of the cover I think is great.

[00:36:40] So especially young designers listening, you know, don't just email your resumes over, you know, lava PDF through the internet. I think when the same thing the the paper mail is true, I think for for resumes or cover letters for sure de to be thoughtful about what kind of [00:37:00] paper it's on and what the envelope looks like and.

[00:37:03] Unless this is true in the UK than yes. We have like all these different stamps and whatever you can add a little personalizations all of these things through paper weight and color and stamps and handwriting. So there's a lot you can do to really stand out in the stack as opposed to just trying to break through the email inbox.

[00:37:25] Yes, good point hand and made stuffin handwritten stuff for sure. I like the idea of videos as well. If someone sent me a video and they want to get hired by me like it's been my personal and maybe maybe people getting this too much these days maybe sort of been done. But if you're a student and you're sending over a PDF of your portfolio and you can't afford to get it printed and actually send it to them or can't afford to make any handmade things then maybe include a video is much much more personal and it's also personalized then and it's.

[00:37:54] I'm a bit more direct and might actually hit something hit home rather than just sending over a blank email. [00:38:00] But yeah, definitely. Yeah, so the other thing I wanted to talk to you about is values and because I've been on this road at the moment of what my values and what am I holding myself to and how can I also came when I was watching a 59 59 second Clips as well.

[00:38:17] Yeah, holding yourself to values and understanding self-awareness and really understanding who I am at the moment and another as a manager because there is focus and who says. You should have it was clear set of values and stay consistent with that throughout your life. And I really like but end of the by the time you get to the end.

[00:38:34] He should really everyone should know for those values and I just think that's such a cool thing. And that's one of the questions asked in the podcast is how George remembered I think coming think about it so many times but never really thought about it myself if I could run by these these values I've got and.

[00:38:51] Yeah, I think the amazing. So yeah, so I'll go ask you what sort of values do you live by and is there anything you thought [00:39:00] of?  Yeah, this is such a good question, you know something that I talk about values frequently or talk about, you know how to make sure that from a marketing standpoint or from a branding standpoint that you're coming through as you as you intend to be in and I'm sure this is not like my.

[00:39:19] My ultimate list, you know, I need to I need to probably give that some more thought like if I only had five or only attend will they would this be that you know, some of the ones that I thought about were. These are all kind of related but like between curiosity and learning and teaching. I think those are all very tightly packaged together.

[00:39:39] But you know, I have always valued in myself and I value and others this idea of curiosity or someone who's open to learning new things or ask more questions or just to be inquisitive and and I love. Being in front of a room or even one on one with people who are curious and [00:40:00] inquisitive and to being able to teach them and offer them something of value.

[00:40:04] So that's probably really big one for me is just that whole idea of sharing and being curious and and the value that I place on on teaching. I never I never thought like I want to go to school and be a teacher or lecturer Professor, but it's interesting how how important that is to me now. That's amazing and that comes with it to podcast and the two books.

[00:40:28] And yeah, I guess that makes a lot of sense is that it doesn't you thought about you just it's just come together and now you're realizing. Oh, yeah, it's something that I I've been thinking about her a lot recently has. You know we talked about at the top of the show all the different crazy things that I'm doing and what's wondering like what's driving me to do all of these things.

[00:40:52] I think it took me a long time in life to figure out that I'm a little bit of a type A as in you know, very [00:41:00] achievement driven person. But it but it's not typical like go out get the big job get the big car make more money like it's not that version of Taipei. It's more. Just achieving more things.

[00:41:12] So for me learning stuff for amassing knowledge or having new skills like that. That's kind of my version of Taipei which is which is a little weird and that's coupled with I definitely value optimism so that. And maybe to a fault. So I always think I have time to learn more than I actually have something to do or time to squeeze in one more thing, which is also probably consistent with this idea of how do you do all these things?

[00:41:42] Well, I always think I can get more done than I probably can. So, so that's that's a good thing and a bad thing. I think it'll to miss to view that's good because so many people get stuck in in the jobs and just doing stuff and it just keeps going down and down and down so sleepy. They and thing [00:42:00] I've really been trying to but being more optimistic is no watching the news not pay attention to the news because so one especially over here.

[00:42:06] I don't know Reno was like over your vote your way. But for a great tip avoid the news whenever I can. Yeah. I said my grandparents do we really need to know about people in Greece or like it's really these know about stuff happening that was in some other some of that's not it says bad to say but not really going to affect us.

[00:42:30] So one-sided and it really it's always miserable pretty much. Yeah, and you know, I try to come up for air often enough to have awareness if there's some major world event going on in her know I because I feel empathy but I also don't feel I don't want to be overwhelmed by all the world's problems.

[00:42:48] In an instant every day. So I've stopped looking at Global News every morning I wake up because it's that's just not that's not a good thing. You know. I've got a few things that I check on [00:43:00] intentionally, you know, some of them are related to movies coming out want to see what the latest rumor is about this movie or whatever but, you know world events and stuff like that.

[00:43:10] I just don't I don't fill my head with that all day every day. I think I drive myself crazy if I did. Yeah, you big moviegoer you like a lot of movies. Yeah, I. I sort of become a bit of a superhero movie fan. I spent the first six or seven years of my life believing that I was Batman. That's that's what sort of got it started.

[00:43:35] But I never you know, I've probably only less than a dozen comic books in my life. So it wasn't that I was always into comic books as a kid that I always enjoyed the movies in the film. So I try to seek out just enough to know the backstory of like what it's. Was to be before the film comes out so I know a little bit but I am not a real nerd I didn't yeah, I don't have I don't have the real history behind it.

[00:44:00] [00:44:00] So I just don't want to be the superior fan films a good for like the optimism in that the getting again those values because always good stories in them. Yeah, I'd say I'm not a huge fan of them, but there's always like there's always something you can take away from the character. There's always like a story you put yourself in their shoes and it's like.

[00:44:19] She can do it. Yeah, I can definitely take stuff away from them. If you think is a branding guy to I think there are there so many stories about identity and differentiation and how to stand out and how to be true to what you're about. I think there's so many branding lessons in these things. It's sort of the same lesson with every superhero movie, but you know in the.

[00:44:43] In the Black Panther, you know kind of middle the movie. He's in this fight without his superpowers in his mother's yelling to him. Tell them who you are and like. I was just in tears and I may have been the only person in the movie theater, but just this idea of [00:45:00] you know, his his very identity was at stake that he was about to be beat up and that somehow he wasn't going to be this the same guy anymore.

[00:45:11] Like I definitely get into those kind of stories. That's why a lot of Designing this relate to them because they did you tell tell branding stories. Yeah, I think most of my friends have died signs like superhero films. So yeah, and they always put each they would put themselves in the shoes of the a superhero as well.

[00:45:30] None of us says no one of them for themselves in the shoes the villain. Yeah. What's also a source of you doing with yourself and personal branding today to get your message out there? A message is what is your name too much. Really? I think my biggest effort over the last year has really been the YouTube stuff and you know, that's that's like learning all another language figuring out how to.

[00:45:56] How to optimize the video to be found by the people that you want to [00:46:00] see it or you know, it's frustrating when you have one that's about fewer technology and that gets thousands of use and then we have one that you're like I was a really great message and it's had like 12 years in the first week like, haha.

[00:46:12] I think some of those are boomed was it 14,000 views or yeah, and then there are others that have like twelve or twenty nine or something. It's really weird. It's tough too tough to figure out which is which and and why that happens but yeah, that's that's in my latest experiment with other things.

[00:46:32] I sort of know how to how to ramp up or build up and. Like late in December of two thousand eighteen. I put out a personal brand audit checklist. So it's just this free thing that you can go to Josh miles.com and download and that gets like maybe somebody every day will fill out that form and download the.

[00:46:54] The PDF so that's growing that email list. Just kind of like without me even doing [00:47:00] anything but it's a good resource just of things that you might think about if you're considering doing that brand audit and thinking through you know, what are all the things I have out there and do they all make sense as a consistent.

[00:47:13] So, you know, just trying to build up some some little tools like that. I think depending on what I do this next book May shift a lot of what I want to do the personal brand so, you know lots of lots of things in the air right now. What do you think about so having these platforms that I say that I'm going really pushing really really doing well and consistent with Twitter Instagram and then Facebook sort of falling off what I dribble slightly falling off and it's not really consistent anymore because it still old work would you say, okay.

[00:47:45] I'm Raven post you on here. If I don't keep trying to post it. Let's just stack after stack it off and just cancel it like this. Just this is get rid of that platform rather than having it there as a backbone old work or would you just keep yourself on anyway? [00:48:00] I think some of those Niche platforms are probably worth walking away from if you're not getting some good momentum something like Facebook or YouTube.

[00:48:12] I think those are worth having just to have because I think those are kind of the Giants in the industry at this point the Googles and Facebooks who run these things are just are so big that. You know it even if it's backburner, even if you're not giving it lots of attention just leaving that content out there is probably wise in case you want to come back to in the future.

[00:48:36] Okay, that's good. That's good advice. Yea, is there anything that was you you say to young people getting into the industry? What was it what's been something you found hard and have you become it? Maybe related to the platform question and this question is thinking about as a young person. What do you want your body of work to look [00:49:00] like?

[00:49:01] In three years or five years or 10 years and to be really intentional about building that to say. Okay. Well, I'm the kind of designer who would sell their own Lightroom presets or I'm the kind of designer who would have logo templates or I'm gonna kind of designer who would have their own typeface in five years.

[00:49:20] Well, Start learning about how to do a typeface, you know get yourself on the right path so that you know, maybe maybe over the next year you're releasing a few characters that you design and getting feedback on those and you're building up to that typeface or. If you want to have a book that takes time, so any of these kind of things, you know thinking about where do I want to be in the future?

[00:49:42] And then you know, what platform do I want to build that on and am I moving in the right direction adding steps to get to where I want to be in a couple years. Okay. Yeah, that's good. So self awareness of where you want to be. Okay, and then looking and thinking about how you can go around doing that.

[00:50:00] [00:50:00] Have you ever reversed engineered stuff? Like I look at Luke say you want to but you have to have your own studio and you want to both I'm going to see how did you ever done it like come back with steps? Yeah, it was kind of how the book work for me, which was I went back to you know started with an outline.

[00:50:18] I had written some chapters and then. I ended up scrapping a lot of what I had written because I went back and wrote an outline and said here's basically what would become the table of contents and here's what each section should be about usually chapters about and some bullet points for each chapter.

[00:50:34] And then I would go to that stuff that I had already written and go okay that either does or doesn't fit anymore. And now I need to adjust to build it out. So then you sort of just get in the habit of okay. I'm going to try to write. Two chapters this weekend or one chapter this weekend how many how many words are how many pages so it just kind of kind of snowballs like that?

[00:50:55] Yeah. How about the book? So how much research did you put in for it before was it just like [00:51:00] all the knowledge you've built up just by doing stuff. There's a little bit about so some of it was just you know, the on-the-job experience and working with clients and conversations that I had and then others some of it was case studies.

[00:51:14] So it was and not all the case studies were work that I had personally done. So it was interviewing people who did similar kinds of work who maybe had. Had an interesting point of view or an interesting project. Maybe it was video or social media or something that I didn't have a lot of experience with at the time and this is a big question.

[00:51:35] You probably get caught a lot. How long does it take to like Islander take you to the book start to finish once I get serious about it was about six months of pure writing and then about six months of. Edits and production work. So I think if I had it to do all over I could do it faster if all I was doing this writing a book but most [00:52:00] people are juggling at least one other job and you know family and hobbies and everything else.

[00:52:05] So for me, it was it was largely a Saturday project. It was get up early and make some coffee sit down and write all morning and you know try to crank a little bit in the afternoon and then that was about it after. Six or seven hours of writing that was about all I could take. So, you know, I think if I could make that a two or three day a week thing, then you could really easily cram that down into a, you know, a month or two of writing and month or two budgeting but it's it's a big project do you think is good?

[00:52:34] Let's have that break in between like but even that she's so upset side Saturday rather than he's going to give you time to think.  Yeah, definitely, I think. Maybe as important as the breaks in between are the concentrated amounts of time to work on it. So even if it's just an hour a day or an hour.

[00:52:56] Three days a week. I think that's better than trying to work in [00:53:00] 10 minutes here in 20 minutes there and you know getting at least an hour to get some momentum. I think there's lots of research that shows you've got to sort of be on a task for at least 20 minutes before you're really focused into that.

[00:53:13] So I think that's helpful. You describe yourself as a coffee addict as well the coffee nowadays. Yeah. How's that been in getting your focus? Yeah, so. I don't know if it's better or worse. I didn't know it depends on guessing. How many drink each day but I'm more of a energy drink person rather than coffee and tea.

[00:53:35] I'm disgraced of the British Nation not drinking enough teeth, but how has that affected your work? And do you think you could do it without caffeine? That's a good question. I had decided at some point that if I'd already had a few cups of coffee during the day if I just went and put hot water and a coffee cup.

[00:53:55] My brain still sort of thinks and drinking coffee. So I think [00:54:00] this measure something there's something comforting about just having the hot cock in your hand. And once you get used to that, I think that's that's half of it in the morning. I have to have a have to have some caffeine or I just don't feel right.

[00:54:12] I'm sure that's that's the addiction speaking. That's probably not actually true that but I think I'd have to be off of it for a while to not feel that way because I think. This like a little switch for me when I went I had a kind of this energy drink this monster once if I put it down on the table, like open it and take a sip.

[00:54:33] I think right. I'm on now that I've got this work exactly. There's something about that first sip that you're you're ready to get going soon as it as soon as it hits ya some sort of weird ritual sort of like you got to do working hard. Now you're on Hadley is weird. Then I didn't obviously doesn't obviously built up over time where I am.

[00:54:54] I've done it so often and I'm like, I'm not ready. I'm just procrastinating on for watching YouTube videos. I'm just [00:55:00] it's not really going are not actually working. So yeah, right. It's hard to focus it down but of tonight, I love to know more about if it's a scientist or someone who could speak to about.

[00:55:10] But caffeine affects somebody that's been those YouTube videos about it and it's probably a bell curve to it's probably an increase in productivity and then not so good after that or maybe no no additional help. Yeah. It is not a caffeine crash. Or high computer cutting highs as well. Yeah. I don't know about that.

[00:55:31] I don't know that I've ever like really overdosed on caffeine, but I got imagine that's not good and I thought probably guess it's quite hard today. The only time I felt like when it's all come together as I was drinking, I don't know if it's if it's coincidence. I was drinking caffeine at the same time, but there's really good feeling that he sort of project just been finished and it was very happy with the work and it [00:56:00] sort of felt that everything was going really well.

[00:56:01] I think I've done a good podcast that day as well as all right that moment was great. I think it might have been caffeine too. I'm not sure those little moments. Is there fantastic like you get them sometimes and so they great but that I wear that went that's crazy tangent. But yeah, so talking about yourself last two questions like to ask everyone is first of all, we should best purchase under $100.

[00:56:27] My best project under $100 purchase purchase. That's a good question. Probably coffee. Yeah, how many hours do you drink? Well, I probably have about a pot of coffee a day. How much is it pot of coffee? It's probably eight eight actual cops, you know a couple each of this is like that's probably two cups worth of coffee in there.

[00:56:56] Sounds like a lot probably is [00:57:00] but. Yeah, I've been I was a Mountain Dew guy before. Yeah, which was not good for me. I think my my teeth were probably riding out of my head at that point, but that was a couple of years right after college and. I got off of off the soda all together. So I think it was a good switch to go from Mountain Dew day coffee.

[00:57:22] No sugar. Stephanie better switch Yeah, like this is something about the amount of sugar in mountains you I don't know. It's like to Sure girls who like there's like soap over here. I'm not sure if it's a mode where you are, but there's like so you had it sounds awful. I love the same stuff and I just got off it.

[00:57:43] I used to like it as well. But yeah, anyway next question completely unrelated to that and it's quite a big one. So, how do you want to be remembered? It's the last question. Hmm. So I think I've added to this recently which we talked about a little bit already, [00:58:00] but the one thing that I. M most focused on is I want my kids to remember me as the best data ever.

[00:58:08] They call me data. So that's that's number one to me. That's that is the most important thing in the thing that I've added to that is I hope people remember me as a teacher even though I wasn't. You know working as a professor or instructor somewhere that that they learn from me and that they feel like there's an openness and a willingness for me to want to teach them.

[00:58:35] Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah, you told me stuff said thank you very much. Thank you. Well, thanks for having me on I was glad that I was able to wear my creative waffle. I didn't like to sit. Yeah. Stop the I'd say I thought yes, good. Good branding got their yellow shake. It was so conscious to begin with but then.

[00:58:54] I was thinking about it later. It's like oh, yeah, that's gonna look like I'm wearing the logo. [00:59:00] Where can people find you say? Hello to your social media and check out your book your website and all the other stuff. So, I'm sure all the YouTube stuff is at youtube.com slash Josh miles. There's sort of all things Josh if you're really interested in more of me at Josh smiles.com in the book is bold brand 2.0.

[00:59:18] It's on Amazon and probably lots of other places to that Amazon's really good place to go for it. Cool. Is it also a little bit more? We worry about Amazon's you get the most money from it. If you set for our Amazon old you do you set it free website. Is that a better way of doing it when you get it if I only sold bulk deals through the website, so if somebody wants to buy like a step further team or for their company, you know, 10 or more copies than definitely hit me up on the website and I can.

[00:59:48] I can get you a better deal there. But but I'm ordering the author copies through the website so one-offs. I don't I don't get that great of a deal. So uncool, so I was [01:00:00] one. Yeah, and hopefully we'll have lots more episodes of the podcast here coming out this spring. So obsessed show.com where you can find accessible design on iTunes and all those places, of course to study assessment design.

[01:00:14] Check it out. Thanks for watching the show. Yeah. Thanks, Mark. Have a good one.  Thank you very much for listening to this episode of the creative awful podcast this week system of the week is come see what it is rated from Sheffield has also been one of the freelance fee for episodes. It's going to check that out insanely talented, and if you want be next week's lesson of the week going to leave a review on iTunes and also really helps out the show.

[01:00:35] Once again. Thanks so much for listening. Have a great day, and I'll see you in the next episode.

Ep. 126 - Nathan Oser

Ep. 126 - Nathan Oser

Ep. 124 - Emilee Rudd

Ep. 124 - Emilee Rudd

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